Today I watched The Question of God, a very well-made documentary which follows a course given by Dr. Armand Nicholi. Nicholi uses the contrasting world-views of Freud and C.S. Lewis to enter into the God question. The documentary includes segments about the life and work of both Freud* and Lewis, but most interestingly of all it is half-composed of a discussion panel where a group of seven people gather to discuss the issues at hand and debate their beliefs. It would seem there were about two Christians, one quite assured in his faith and the other seemingly tortured by it (he seemed very nervous and conflicted the whole time), a couple of typically New Age spiritualists (one was a Jungian analyst) and then one agnostic and one lone atheist.**
I really loved watching the discussions, but I have to say I was more annoyed than I thought I would be at all the religiously inclined folks. As an agnostic, I like hearing and having conversations like this because I am interested in people whose experiences and feelings on the matter are different from my own, whether in one direction or the other. I don’t have any positive belief in God, but I rather envy those who do. However, at every turn the arguments of the lone atheist (and his sometimes unarticulated scientific explanation which he did not always belabor himself to explain extensively, as obviously it would have taken forever and probably not convinced anyone there) seemed to clear up all the tricky problems that, starting with the assumption of God, no one else could quite explain or articulate. (Example: it is easy to grasp that bad things happen to good people when you do not think there is rhyme or reason to illness or catastrophe, but if you posit a benevolent God, then this becomes really difficult.) Anyway, this all agitated me enough to write out the thoughts that came to my mind that neither of the two dissenters were able to get in at the table amongst the five other contributors.
Preposition 1: Moral sense (conscience) comes from God.
Arguments for from the panel:
1) All people at bottom have a sense of right and wrong (one member asked pointedly if the Nazis really believed that there was nothing wrong with what they did to people – obviously he thought the answer was “no”).
2) No society has existed which finds cruelty, murder, rape and the such to be positive things; therefore, there is a reality to moral law which points to God.
Problems with these arguments:
1) Firstly, the claim that all people universally share a conscience of right and wrong when it comes to the really evil stuff, ie rape, murder, and the such, is pretty easy to disprove, it would seem to me. A good chunk of serial killers, for starters, do not feel any sense of remorse but rather the opposite, a high, from their evil-doing. Yes, they recognize that their society considers these acts immoral, yet they often delight in agreeing with this, and there are people who do not feel burdened by their bad deeds, but glorified by them. These people are sociopaths for whatever combination of reasons – biological issues or childhood trauma – but nevertheless they do not have this pang of conscience. The evolutionary machinery that provides for conscience has somehow had a stick thrown in it, along with the supposed nudging of God towards guilt and good behavior.
But we hardly have to resort to the sociopaths to support this. One of the largest lessons something like the Holocaust gives us is the insight of the so-called “banality of evil,” namely, that it hardly required a heated anti-Semite to participate in the Holocaust knowingly; rather, it only required a certain set of circumstances compelling ordinary men to shrug their shoulders and go along, rather indifferently at times, with incredible evil as the path of least resistance and most likely benefit. Most Westerns imagine the Nazi executioners as all-around horrific people, filled with hate – they do not realize that a lot of them were probably loving fathers, good husbands and amusing, light hearted company with friends. But historical circumstances, when so arrayed in a certain combination, overcome human decency fairly easily. This is the deeper and more disturbing reality that most people, when they are watching movies depicting the horrors of war or genocide, fail to consider. It does not require an immense amount of hatred or ill-feeling on the part of societies to commit horrors; rather it just requires a sustained set of circumstances which promote such behavior. In this light, the supposed conscience of God supposedly imprinted in every one of ourselves appears rather flimsy, probably not a basis for arguing for the existence of shared, spiritual base.
2) Secondly, the biological, scientific explanation here makes bundles more sense. We are social creatures by virtue of the species, and as we evolved into more intelligent beings, all the more fine tuned became the basic law that a society composed of social creatures cannot possibly function without such destructive behaviors being instinctively and institutionally stigmatized and averted. I was utterly surprised to see that no one on this discussion panel pointed out that animals seem to observe all the same basic moral laws we do – they don’t kill their own children or members of their own group/family, and they work to preserve the group as a whole to perpetuate their survival, basically. The golden rule makes an awful lot of evolutionary sense. Interestingly, even human depravity when the benefits of morals are trumped by the passions or promotions of violence can be seen in animals – chimpanzees will kill the baby of a rival clan whose territory they are attempting to obtain.***
3) Finally, no one mentioned how conscience, or guilt, is also largely the product of an upbringing and, to favor Freudian analysis here, the role of the parent in our subconscious. Did it not occur to anyone on the panel that one feels bad about that which is considered sinful at least in part because we know our beloved father or mother would disapprove? How about the fact that many of us are raised in a religious tradition which, from the moment of our consciousness, starts informing and molding our subconscious? Is this not a powerful explanation for the existence of the conscience as well? No one brought this up at all.
The superstition in which we grow up
Does not lose its power over us
Even when we recognize it.
Even those who ridicule their chains are not always free.
–G.E. Lessing, Nathan the Wise
Proposition 2: Jesus is different from similar myths and allegories in history because he was an actual person who walked the earth and left behind historical records.
Arguments for from the panel: people claim they are God all the time, but invariably they end up being insane; Jesus was clearly not insane, but rather the repository of great wisdom, and the only such man in history to claim he was God. Therefore, he must be something different, ie actually God.
1) There are so many things with this argument I do not know where to start. Firstly, I highly doubt that Jesus was the only known “sane” man to claim he was God – I’ll have to consult with an ancient historian on this, but that’s my guess. But even if there wasn’t a historical figure on record before Jesus, how does that prove there wasn’t one? Perhaps the people in this panel were not very steeped in the problem of historical data, and they do not realize how rare and unusual such documentation is. Very easily dozens of such men, with devout followers, could have existed in any place all over the ancient world, and then passed away without any recorded information. To make such a statement seems to suppose that all of ancient history is as well documented as last week in New York.
2) Secondly, since when have we opposed wisdom and sanity? Has the individual who made this argument not noticed that some of our most beloved literature, our most insightful poets and thinkers, were also conspicuously mentally unstable? Wisdom and brilliant inner insight has often come from the mouths of those most acquainted with inner instability. I’m not advocating mental illness as a way to inner peace, far from it; I’m only pointing out that brilliance and instability have often come coupled together, hence I hardly see that as a reason for finding Jesus somehow much more credible because he appeared relatively calm – but how on earth would we know this anyway? Is the historical record anywhere near complete or accurate enough for us to conclude that Jesus wasn’t, in fact, suffering from some sort of mental delusions? Weren’t the gospels written well after the fact of the death of Jesus, and riddled with contradictions, often resemble second-hand accounts played through a game of telephone more than the account of someone who had known Jesus intimately and could garner a psychological report with our modern standards for what constituted “sane” behavior? In short, WTF?
We will just stick with those two, as I can’t think of the others and am not entirely sure that I want to. I did enjoy watching this program though, but I experienced that great discomfort of wanting to interject into the conversation on the television screen and articulate the opposing arguments that the one agnostic (who came up with pretty run-of-the-mill queries and comments which weren’t very impressive) and the one atheist on the panel did not highlight as forcefully or clearly as I wanted them to. Or they did not offer them at all, and I wasn’t even able to see what response the more religiously inclined among them would have to such a point.
Anyway, an interesting and illuminating experience.
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* It strikes me as slightly unfair to choose Freud as the grand spokesman for atheism; as a lot of the particulars of his psychotherapy have since been discredited, and in fact quite mocked by a popular culture instinctually discomforted by his theories, doesn’t it seem like it is already a losing game in attempting to outshine the congenial, friendly Lewis of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe?
** The lone atheist was Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic magazine, and I must say, I quite liked him.
***Our evolutionary origins in general, I was amazed, were very little discussed in the panel. The atheist kept pointing at it, but never spelt it out like I wanted to, reminding everyone there explicitly that we used to be apes, and in fact, when you consider this a lot of our supposedly spiritual machinery makes a lot more sense.